I'm going to quote the existentialist Albert Camus from his essay "The Stranger":
".. he seem so cocksure, you see. And yet none of his certainties was worth one strand of a woman's hair. Living as he did, like a corpse, he couldn't even be sure of being alive. It might look as if my hands were empty. Actually, I was sure of myself, sure about everything, far surer than he; sure of my present life and of the death that was coming. That, no doubt, was all I had; but at least that certainty was something I could get my teeth into - just as it had gotten it's teeth into me. I'd been right, I was still right, and I was always right. I'd passed my life in a certain way, and I might have passed it in a different way, if I'd felt like it. I'd acted thus, and I hadn't acted otherwise; I hadn't done x, whereas I had done y or z. And what did that mean? That, all the time, I'd been awaiting for this present moment, for that dawn, tomorrow's or another day's, which was to justify me. Nothing, nothing had the least importance, and I knew quite well why. He, too, knew why. From the dark horizon of my future a sort of slow, persistent breeze had been blowing towards me, all my life long, from the years that were to come. And on its way that breeze had leveled out all the ideas that people tried to foist on me in the equally unreal years I then was living through. What difference could they make to me, the deaths of others, or a mother's love, or his God; or the way a man decides to live, the fate he thinks he chooses, since one and the same fate was bound to "choose" not only me but thousands of millions of privileged people who, like him, called themselves my brothers. Surely, surely he must see that? Ever man alive was privileged; there was only one class of men, the priveleged class. All alike would be condemned to die one day; his turn, too, would come like the others'.."
I feel a wholeheartedness with Camus and also with Kierkegaard and their thoughts upon this. This is simply a quote I felt was relevant to the topic at hand.
yino18 wrote:Many think that they can repent before they die, and live freely as ungodly through life.
I will agree with you here, I have never believed that in such a thing as the afterlife one can make a momentous decision in such a short amount of time. That's what I am saying, most people who are faced with death will make whatever decision they feel is right, no matter how cavalier the moment or the principle on which they make it under. But, no, I think that if you're going to be a religious person, it is in your best interest to dedicate your life to that religion or belief and not shrug it off until the last second. You obviously are a dedicated person, which is respectable.
yino18 wrote:I can't express how you have misread my "before its too late." I am not threatening you at all.
Unfortunately, anything consistent with an ultimatum seems threatening to me. "Or else" almost always is on the principle of the issuing of an ultimatum. Used car dealers having a huge Memorial Day weekend sale, buy now at these great prices - or else. Or else what? Or else we lose some money? Or else the world economy is destroyed? Or else the entire human race backward-evolves? We don't really know, so take it as it is - an ultimatum. That is
exactly what it is, and although the tone and repose of your sentence is not exactly threatening in nature, the words "or else" are just unignorable. Find God or else what? Or else go to Hell? Or else not proceed to the afterlife? Or else not save a few bucks on a new car? When it comes to God, we do not operate on certainty, we operate on faith, so we are not exactly positive of what happens. Anyone that says they know what happens says so under the premise of faith. I am happy you meant what you said in such a jovial and helpful way; however, many things stem from interpretation, and my interpretation of your sentence seems like an ultimatum, and it is.
Not knowing God or where we go doesn't exist only in agnostics such as myself, but also in other religions. Ahura Mazda, the God of Zoroastrianism, is considered vast and incomprehenisible and guarantees only a life on Earth. The same goes for Allah, the God of Islam, and for the God of Bah�i.
yino18 wrote:That makes it sound like some cult who forces things upon people.
Unfortunately, I also find a loose bond between religions and cults.
yino18 wrote:I pray for you with my heart, I don't threat you.
Please don't waste your prayers on me now; it is better to burn than to disappear.
yino18 wrote:I am not sure I am understanding your question on free will. I know each decision you freely make will effect your choices later. So you will not make "free will" decisions now that will not effect your final outcome. An example, taking a job in place a over place b will then effect you in the people you meet and the direction you travel from there on.
If God is the guy running this show and he has blessed us all with free will, this free will ultimately only leads to whether or not we have lived the right life or not. So our "free will" is nothing more than stepping stones to whether we ascend or descend. If that is all free will, if that is all Earth is is some kind of judging ground, then count me out. Brainwash me and lead me to whatever life is right, I suppose. Currently, my job, day-in and day-out is helping people with disabilities. I don't steal, kill, do drugs, drink excessively, fight, look down on others, make fun of other people's beliefs, etc.. Yet still I'm going to die and I'm going to go to Hell. Fine. Have I often wished there was an afterlife? Of course I have. Everybody has that wish at times. But that had no more importance than wishing to be rich, or to swim very fast, or to have a better-shaped mouth. It was in the same order of things. How do I picture life after the grave? A life in which I can remember this life on Earth. That's all I want of it.
From another post of mine:
To believe in what you do not physically perceive you must have faith, it is the fundamental basis for all religions. I am like you, I have no faith in a higher power such as what most people think. But, you have to consider the question first of all - do I need verification of my existence or assurance of a higher power? No, I don't. I'll tell you what I have faith in - I have faith in myself, the people I know who will do right, and the things that are quantifiably in the bounds of my control. I don't need reassurance - I am just.
As many people know already, I am an agnostic. Having decided that theism and atheism are equally based on assumptions rather than observation, it's fair to ask if the central tenet of agnosticism might, likewise, be a bald assertion. The answer, quite simply, is that it is not. To say that the existence of God is uncertain, is based upon the observation that there is no proof, or disproof, of God's existence. In the face of a lack of evidence either way, one cannot assume that either proposal is true. This is a reasonable, logical conclusion, thoroughly rational, which makes no assumptions, and which does not engage in interpretation.
Quote from a website:
"A lot of people maintain their belief in a deity — in spite of their own doubts, or the irrationality of believing in something that's non-demonstrable — because it gives their lives " meaning." I must ask the obvious question:
Who says that life has to have meaning?
'Meaning' can only be inferred, it is not inherent. To look at the world, and one's life, and decide that it has some particular "meaning," is an erroneous inference, a baseless assumption. As an example, take the statement:
Jugebble megola varin os makudafuppel.
What does it mean? Are you able to figure it out? Are you dying to know? Or even just curious? Well, set your mind at ease; it doesn't mean anything! I just made up those words — they're gibberish. But — human instinct is to attempt some sort of interpretation; they're words, after all, and a collection of words must mean something."